Sunday, August 30, 2009

Sunday update

NO changes as per prior comments

Power index lays out next week as such

SMACK down still expected 10 AM & secondary at noon-
no way to know which will be the LOD
index starts at low 300, and finishes at 500
propens index THSDAY was at 3009, and MAKES a PIVOT LOW Monday at 2980
It was fALLING at the close Friday, but stocks did NOT have time to react
NOW THEY DO, and THEY have been chomping at the bit to SELL

Tuesday power index is mixed, but should reach a high at 3pm
after a choppy day, BUT biased UP

Wed OPENS DOWN again on 39hrs and power index at 350, rising to 450
Another CHOPPY day with upside bias after the open

Thsday opens flat to up but makes a pivot low at 10:30, ON the 13 day cycle
and might continue somewhat weak till 12;30/ 1pm
index 450-350- 350-400

FRIDAY EXPLODES HIGHER at the OPEN, and drops off the rest of the day
600 - 300
opposite of Monday

AS ALWAYS, we can NEVER EVER get it EXACTLY right in advance,
but any similarity to the above is PURE ACCIDENT -
HAHAHA - That got your attention

Spt has 2 important high points & or turns

Low points & or pivots

Merc goes RETRO on 7th effecting 8th & 9th ~~
and DIRECT on 29th - EXPECT huge rebound

Full moon on 4th - often at turns
15th ~ Saturn 180 Uranus -- restrictions conflict with rebellion - Trapped

15-16-17 HARD ASPECTS grouping - should sell off
Rebound to 22nd MONDAY HIGH - 20th = Sun 0 Merc- found at hhighs
AND on 21st ~ Venus 120 pluto - ditto

possible VERY BIG DECLINE ending on 28th and or 29th Teusday turn around

more later

Friday, August 28, 2009

OBV still weak

Thanks for the great input, yes even jj

The WAVE from the HIGh on the 25th to the 27th looks like abc x abc to a wv iv

the WAVE from the 25th at 10 am to the 28th at 10am looks like 5 waves to a NEW intraday high

the wave DOWN from that high now looks like a -b - c to 1023.13

the recovery wave UP from 1023 to 1028 also looks like an abc.

what is that telling us?

and the spx is lower at 2pm, a 126 bar cycle

BAR cycles DO NOT have to be LOD's or lower lows
but they often are.
OBV on the 1 day/ 1 min chart is RISING at 2pm.

126 bar cycle would now look for 156 bars Monday low at 10am
and Monday also has a 78.6% /13 day cycle LOW at 11;55am
Tuesday 10am to noon rebound HIGh

Remember there is a postive lunar Jupiter aspect at 3;11pm TODAY
and the best part of the bear could be after that.


Thursday, August 27, 2009

OBV weak

What was that - today ??
Wve " v " extension ?? higher high on close for spx , and dow
10am LOW was right on TARGET = wv iv

9/3 is now shrouded in mystery
some say HIGH, and some say low

As I pointed out b4, the Morning of 9/2 at 10am is due another HIGh & TURN
39 hrs Aug 17th at 10am

SPT 2nd at 10am and again at 3;30 is the next HIGH & TURN

Tomorrw propens index so far shows the day as DOWN as does the power index.

$$ NEWS is Supposed to be HARSH- not so good GDP?? maybe the catalyst

IF we get a very strong sell off to the 1000 level or there about,
IT would mean that the 31st & 1st should NOT make new highs
power index for 31st starts out LOW at 300, and jumps to 500 at close
so it should END as an upday, but its too soon to tell how high
Last day and First day syndrome usually are UP days for the month

Thanks again for the great comments
some very good fill in info is being offered here and is very valuable to traders.

Some one talking crash for Spt 1st is NONSENSE

reference last years Spt was NOT good for stocks, but very good for bears
8/28/08 was a HIGh at 11,715
8/29 was off nearly 170 pts to the 11,550 area
9/2 opened higher at 11,800 , then took a dive to 11,516 close
9/9 was lower also
9/17/08 was 1000 pts lower to 10,600 - CAUTION with that one this year

more later




I have a DAILY RECORD of ARMS data that goes back many years

TODAY we are 120 tr days from MARCH 9th

1. 5 day ARMS = 75.4 and has been UNDER 80 for 3days in a row
2. TRIN 5 = 377 and has been UNDER 400 for days in a ROW
3. TRIn 10 - 977 and has been under 1000 for 3 days in a row

THOSE are VERY bearish readings

it could take as little as one day or as much as 10 days to see its effects.

Power index drops lower after today
propens index makes one more stab highr today, but closes lower-
tomrrow's graph is not available until early morning

The JURY is OUT as of this moment as to the DEPTH of tomrrows drop,
the level of which will indicate
either and END of the current rally from 978 to 1038
a continuation into Sptember

Ravi is the MASTER of the MATH, and of course has also posed the same question

more later

Wednesday, August 26, 2009

Bears are READY

I was getting paranoid thinking that the bears would not get at least one day, but I am rethinking that position

Tomrrow's read calls for a TURN and it looks LIKE FLASH FUSION'S big turn on the 28th WILL
BE A LOW, and or the first 15 minutes on Monday

We are STILL in a 4th wave from the 1038 high of the 25th, and 26 hours
takes us to either 4pm friday or 9:45 am on Monday

Ravi and I have posted several levels for the SPX which are very possible to achieve between 1016 and 1000
any more than that is a gift from the gods
I got one email claiming they are expecting 980 - Would be BEARY nice, but I am not holding my breadth

Ignore those crash predictions that arrive every year at this time
at least for now
Tech data has NOT issued any sell signals
but YOU will be the first to know when the data does flash a sell
and even then, there could be a 10 day delay from signal to reality


UPDATE & new thread

Sorry- had too many personal issues to deal with last 2 days

should get back to normal now


Today is performing as expected
a short term LOW should hit tomrrow 27th at
10am to 11am
BUT the 28th COULD end lower

10am = 52 hrs lo to lo - Aug17
258 bars at 10am
62%/13 day cycle at 10:43, could truncate to match above

ALL ONE WAVE so far from 978 to 1038 , and it SHOULD CONTINUE to Spt 1st or 2nd
power index shows 31st and 2st ARE UP DAYS

current MATH rounded off
978- 1038 = 60 pts
60X 38.2% = 23 pts
1038 - 23 = SPX 1015 SEE RAVI's numbers - maybe today's close??

Might break below that TOmrrow at 10am to 50% or 30 pts = 1008
just conjecture based on FIBO math

TODAY so far
Activity index at 100 all morning
Propens index looks for low also tomrrow AM
power index looks for lower close today, and lower on Friday, but might not be lower than today- waiting for propens to catch up with it.

Monday, August 24, 2009

preferred count


This is how it looks with third extended, that will require fourth down and one higher hi for fifth.

1 978.51 991.20 12.69
2 991.20 980.74 -10.46
(i) 980.74 999.61 18.87
(ii) 999.61 993.2 -6.41
i of (iii) 993.20 1006.03 12.83
ii of (iii) 1006.03 1003.75 -2.28
iii of (iii) 1003.75 1027.59 23.84
iv of (iii) 1027.59 1021.8 -5.79
v of (iii) 1021.80 1035.82 14.02

(iii) all 993.20 1035.82 42.62
21.4% 1026.70 -9.12

From Ravi at 2;45 lookin good
LOW at 1;30 at 66 bars @ 1024.79
I use 23.6% fibo ratio X 42.62 = 10.06
1035.81- 10.06 = 10.25.76

its now 3;45pm and I got hungry- mkt rally usually follows- anyone else notice
this phenomena ??


10day - 15 min Chart

High today SO FAR at 1034.95
1035 numerology = 9 = a finishing # for what it worth??

Wave count from 978 ?
wave 1 high to 990
wave 2 low to 980
wave 3 high to 1025 ??
wave 4 low to 1022
wave 5 NOW in progress to 1035??

The PROPENS index shows a HIGHER DAY with NO let up , until late in the day
Unless 2pm Astro offers the HOD with moon 120 Mars

Its now 11am and NO BACK OFF
Activity index is flat at 100 and has been there all day so far from wee hours in the am

10;30 was 30bar minor low
11am now holding just under 1035 earlier highs
the next 9 level = 1044 f or what its worth
MMath levels = 1002, 1033, then 1041

Next 60 bar cycle @ 1pm
90b@ 3;30

Flash uses 4.3 hour cycle & 8.6, but in between is 6.5 which = 39 hours
39 hours from the 978 low on the 17th @ 9:45am = tomrrow at 9:45am
which Ive mentioned often



Your Math and Elliott are incredible - MUCH to absorb

Send me a one paragraph SUMMARY by email and I will post it for a new thread

Hadik's latest report indicates TODAY is possible at 9700 dow = SPX @ 1050
He calls 9700 a magical high & Aug 21 /24th a high progression
However, He also indicates SPT 4th as another potential high

IMO, it should come after a setback this week after the Monday high
I had posted MONDAY as a day that SOARS, but needs to set back some first
Propens index DOES show a HIGHER day today.
As I PREVIOUSLY mentioned - Aug 25th to 27th & 28th has potential to
SELL off more dramatically than we have seen for a while -

VENUS trine URANUS & Sun trine Pluto on SUNDAY
are pushing Monday higher in the afterglow

LAST year we had a SEPTEMBER Crash, right after the END OF AUGust.
the ACTUAL crash took place from Oct 1 to 10 - dow lost 2400 pts on close

It is QUITE logical from a LOW to HIGH perspective to expect
OCT10th to provide the REVERSE-- A PIVOT high from which a similar loss can occur

However FOR This AM, we are seeing the futures pushing higher at the open
power index agrees with propens for a higher day today
there is a 38%/13 day cycle at 10:12 and moon 90 Venus at 11am
which could pull price levels lower b4 running to a higher close
at or near dow 9700, depending on HOW low the above cycle gets;
We have seen MANY times, a rebound, off a lower open, thus matching
a previous high & dont forget, they still have the 39hours cycle to TOP again TOMRROW
morning at 9:45

AS I previously mentioned:
BY Monday's open they would be CHOMPING at the bit to BUY
and the futures are reflecting as the open is just shy of 1030 as Ravi indicated also

Ideally, I would like to see an abrieviated high this morning at 9:45
low at 11am & rebound into the close.
open higher tomrrow, then DECLINE THRU the OPEN on the 27th,
AFTER bouncing around & making the 28th a SHORT TERM buy at close.

1014 spx as per one of Ravi's comments could offer the LOD at 11am today
but dont count on it.

more later

Friday, August 21, 2009


Looks LIKE OBV PEAKED at 1:30pm
little 5th wave from 3pm- LESSER volume
and price should follow suit on Monday

Took a short position at 3;55pm, and will plan to sell it at 11am tomrrow,
given a 25 pt spx back off = 200 dow pts - just CONJECTURE,
but a set back to just above 1000,
or just below yesterdays close at 1007 would work well also.

At which time, IF at 11am, I will close that position and go long

does that satisfy your short term trading and posting my trades??
Lets WORK together and maybe ALL of us can benefit



Read Ravi comments to UPDATE FAST PACED DAY


Activity is at 300
GOLD is UP $13
1013 - 1018 high target??
propens rises and falls later
power index slips lower during the day

After Higher OPEN - per Coy & Ravi, they should sell off to low 990's by 2 to 3 pm as per bars and Coy

204b at 10am
228b @ noon
258b @ 2;30
could extend to 270 bars at 3;30

The read calls for Fast paced changes
Day should close off the lows
wkend has strong pos trines
39 hours from Aug17 at 9:45 = 9:45 on the 25th. = low to high
astro matches
25th calls for CHANGE to NEGATIVe
26th follow thru lower
27th LOW at 10:43 am & TURN
FITS well with FLASH's 28th date for another BIG run to a new 2009 high on Spt 4th FULL MOON.

spx to 1050-1060 - VERY LIKELY

Thursday, August 20, 2009

WHERE is the BEAR ??

Obviously the BEAR is NOT here TODAY
I had to ask myself why
Astro had the answer - contacts with Neptune are often bullish- Why? you ask
ITS because Neptune is the planet of ILLUSION - its icy blue dreamy state of being.

heres a reading from the aspect.
logical analysis is misguided- confusion confounds fact & truth

Ok, that was then

THE BEAR should bounce from his CAVE tomrrow AM
at the open & MAKE a low @ 204bars at 10am

The aspect of importance is Mercury is 180 Uranus at 7:47 am
it translates as : poor focus- irrationality- disruptions-
moon # Uranus at 10;30am = restless impatience

the day also reads ::: ADAPT TO FAST PACED CHANGES

In conjunction with the above, the PROPENSITY index confirms
a LOWER start, and much higher close
todays close was only at 2992, opens tomorrow at 2987, then closes the day at 2998

I CAN NO LONGER project a DOWN DAY TOMRROW, except as already noted.

the WEEKEND has 2 very positive trines (120),
and the read for the day as previously posted says: today SOARS

the LOW of the 17th at 9:45 am + 26 hrs = Tuesday AM at 9:45
I am making that as a LOW to HIGH

Hey -PG dont leave us NOW, we value your comments

more later


Ibo's chart and CIY dates are in agreement with me

11;16 this morning " SHOULD " provide a turn -- moon 120 pluto
theres no other support left after that
Day closes on Merc 150 Neptune = confusion
Power index shows drop today, not yet started
propens index decline has NOT been seen yet--appears DELAYED ??
Activity index is NOW at 133, and has DROPPED from 300 prior to open.

It would seem all is in place for a CHANGE in trend as per Ibo's chart as well
TODAY and 11;16 seems most likely for that CIT

Yes Ravi I can see most likely 960 at or on Friday's CLOSE
But I cant see 40 pts lost just tomrrow alone

On ibo's chart we can see
1018 high then an a-b-c to 980 low = wave "A"
NOW IN WAVE "B: retracement to 1006
Next would be wave "C" which would also break down into 3 waves a-b-c
as ASTRO has described previously

That means TODAY drops to a LOW on FRIDAY - 960 or as low as 940 = 'a'
Monday as described gets a SUPER booster = 'b'
25th to26th and possibly the open for 27th = wave "c"
end of correction pattern and we then see a run up back to 1000 by Spt 3rd or 4th

IMO, the correction we started on Aug 7th at 1018 WILL NOT END until LATE Spt
23rd to 25th, but I will get more precise on that later.

that cycle convergence at 2pm might also be the acceleration of a TURN LOWER ??

Today ends with CONFUSION
friday's astro starts with a SEVERE SURPRISE

more later

Wednesday, August 19, 2009







I am attempting to put the pieces of the WAVE puzzle in place,
so we can ALL get a handle on WHATS NEXT

As of 1:30 as COY posted we are NOW getting what MIGHT be the 5th wave of "C" = X ??

IF so, then the NEXT BIGGER move has GOT TO BE DOWN
DOWN TO WHERE ?? you ask. GOOD question

I posted some possible levels, but I personally cant see such a
drop in the next 6.5 hours to 2pm tomrrow, or to friday AM open , to such lows

1018 to 980 = 38 pts = possible wave "a"
right now at 1;30 might be wave "b"
which means wave "c" dead ahead

38 x 1.618 = 68 - spx 999.61 got tagged a few minutes ago = spx target of 931
NOT out of the question, but WHEN is the next question, of course
38X 2.618 = 99 - 999 - 99 = 899 , we might be asking too much [gg]

However, Aug 20th AND part of 21st might HOLD the key to the above lows

I know what I wrote on the previous comments
Tomrrow is an 8 day LOW
Friday is an 8 day TURN

Tomrrow new moon is EARLY at 6am, and the after effect could be DOWN
there are 2 astro events that are strongly negative
both are MERCURY aspects - which effects OUR THINKING
Merc 150 Neptune = CONFUSION at 5pm tomrrow
merc 180 Uranus = SEVERE news @ 8 am friday - which is why Im expecting a LOWER OPEN

NOW, heres more
Monday has potential to be a HUGE rally, but from HOW LOW ??
THEN -AUG 25th & 26th are slated to SELL OFF into an OPENING low on the 27th at 10;30

I have to say that the MAIN TREND IS NOW DOWN TILL Late SPT
Spt 18th to 25th is the NEXT ASTRO highlighted time zone for trouble
but AFTER the 25th - it QUICKLY leads to a resolution and HUGE rally to Oct10th - yes OCT10th

THANKS for your great comments
evryone is offering good thoughts and concepts

IT LOOKS LIKE 1;15pm made the hourly TOP in 5 waves from 11;00am where a pivot
began at 60bars and the Jupiter Saturn 150 mark

LET US KNOW WHEN WE GET the FIRST 5 wve decline off that high mark

more later

Tuesday, August 18, 2009


Bollinger bands appear to be coming to a PINCH at 4pm

SPX 991.20 - like the mama bear - JUST RIGHT

NEXT 2 days should PROVE the wave count

it would seem we got wave 1 or 'a' from 1018 to 980 in 6 days --aha 39 hours

Next DOWN LEG would be 13 hours to the 20 th at 2;15pm or the last hour @ 3;30
20th converges 26hrs from the 14th & 65 hours from the the 6th @2:15pm
& 180 bars hits at 3;30

the BAR cycle is right on schedule as there was a minor dip on 258bars @ 1;30pm today
the NEXT important BAR cycle is at 4pm, AND OR OPEN
IF today does NOT tank at the close IT WILL DO SO AT OPEN - tomrrow,
especially given the Mars 90 Uranus tonight

the 20th is an 8 day LOW
which makes the 21st an 8day TURN

Using a variation of my 13 day cycle = Aug 7th at 1;15pm + 84.5 hours =Aug26th

Note about the 26th
Merc 90 PLUTO @ noon
Mars 180 Pluto @ 4;30
strong Plutonian energy = DISRUPTIONS - Uncertainty- domination- rash actions

wave 1 from 1018 to 980 ~~ Aug 7th to Aug 17th
Wave 2 from 10:00am on the 17th to what now looks like 3:55pm today -
wave 3 DOWN should = 2 days from 4pm today till 2pm on the 20th AND or 21st at open
13 hours

how low is low ?
Hey -- you CAN do the math as well as I do
Wave 4 from Early friday to Monday at 4pm = 13 hrs

MY thought is 38 X 1.618 = 62pts
38X 2.618 = 100 pts

350 spx pts gained from march 6th low
X 38.2% = 135 pts
38 pts = wave 1
leaves us with a potential loss of 100 pts in 2 days

Monday's read says THE DAY SOARS
so get ready to buy the lower open on Friday

Tuesday the 25th says a CHANGE IN ENERGY and it gets negative again
27th calls for a TURNING POINT and a 62% /13day cycle at 10;43am

more later


START new thread

ts 9am
activity index is at 66

propens index shows potential for some upside but short lived
and lower by days end , possibly lower tomrrow AM.

Sam, selling some positions at 2pm seem like a good plan for today

My original outlook for today was a low at 4pm,
that still might work out as well as open tomrrow

Futures have backed off higher levels earlier this am

Media says that WALL ST liked Mondays sell off and referred to the mkt as having tanked,
but I get The impression, they THINK its just a temporary dip,
and are expecting higher levels quickly

my conjecture?
A contrarian would say that As long as the gen public thinks that way, its still safe to be short- hmmm

more later

Monday, August 17, 2009

Saturday, August 15, 2009


Check out the OBV on the chart above

10day- 15 mn chart

Friday's low was at 90bars @ 11;30

150 bars @ 10am
180bars @ 12;30
204bars @ 2;30

228b@ 10am
258b @ 1:30
30b@ 4pm-- A LOW POINT

Expect Wed to OPEN strong, BUT AVOID the temptation to spend

more later

Thursday, August 13, 2009


5 day- 5min chart
power index & propens appear to go higher after a lower open
but power index drops after mid day
propens no complete yet for tomrrow

OBV lacking against the higher price levels

The decline looks like 5waves in a CHANNEL
but the rally looks ragged like an a-b-c x a-b- (( c still finishing))

Coy- TYX tracked equities until last hour
TYX dropped but stocks rebounded after 3:30

from an Astro site - POWERFUL CHANGES Aug 15th to 23rd

2pm LOW on 6th + 6 days x 6.5 hrs = 39 hours to Aug14th at 2pm
low to high

1;15 pm low on 11th + 13 hrs got today high at 1012.74 @ 1;10pm

Aug 6th to Aug 26th = 91 hrs = 14 days
39 hrs to Aug 14th as above + 52 hrs to Aug 26 @ 2pm

Aug 20th = 65 hrs from Aug 6th @ 2pm (( 39 + 26 ))
Aug 20 = 26 hrs from 14th at 2pm

When it hits, there will be regrets on Monday Aug17th
Aug 18th & 19th, 2008 dow was off 311 pts
Aug 13 to 16 , 2007 dow fell 724 pts intraday low at 1pm on 16th.

more later


COMPARE to 1930 ??

IMO, the reason this chart has VALUE RIGHT NOW
is because 120 tr days from MARCH 6th takes us to August26th

I have proposed the following wave b4 and here it is again

correction phase as of Aug7th high at 1018 at 1;15pm
got to 992.76 at 1;15 on the 11th
rebounded to 1012.78 at 3pm on the 12th
Futures this AM were up to 1012 again, but have dropped off after 8:30
but still holding at 1009 & Activity index holding at 166

IMO, We are in wave 1 & 2 of CORRECTIVE wave "a"
wave 3 of "a" should start tomrrow or Monday at the latest and end on the 20th
astro for tomrrow hits the high notes at 2pm, and the high energy should wane right after
WAVE 4 of "a" hits for a rally on the 21st and most especially the 24th
THE ENERGY changes dramatically on the 25th and makes the 120 day low on the 26th
for the low of a corrective wave.

more later

Wednesday, August 12, 2009

Current graph

A solid drop UNDER 990 is very negative
and very imminent

ARAK might have his way today with a HOLD till 2;15pm

however, we have
78.6% of 13day at noon LOW

180bars at 10:30
204bars @ 12;30
228bars at 2;30

252 bars at 10am
or 258 bars at 10;30
Im expecting a Strong rally Thsday,
It might be delayed until after the open, but dont bet on it.

Today has a fibo convergence 55-11-81 tr dys

PROPENS index seem to confirm what ARAK posted, UP most of the day till fed hour

more later

Tuesday, August 11, 2009


FROM spx 1018 high at 1;15pm on Friday
IT looks to me
WV 1 low to Monday open at 1005 followed quickly by wave 2 high at 1009
then wave i @ 1001 & ii @1006 of Wave 3 NOW in progress @ 995 near 11am
EXPECTING wave v of 3 to make a low on Friday at 10 to 10;30am
This could actually make the LOW of WAVE {1}
Wv {2} happens quickly late Friday
Monday then starts WAVE 3 of 3, and it ends on the 20th
wave 4 high on 24th which sets up the 5thwave next to the 26th LOW
that is the Possible Elliott wave layout for the "B"wave

HOW low is low will be determined by the low of wave 1 multiplied by a fibo factor
which could be TYPICALLY 1.618 or 2.618 multiple


TOP of the "A" WAVE

It would appear to some of us that we are getting near the top of the "A" wave
but we have written that several times in the last couple months
what makes it so different this time?

Today we are at 110 tr days from March 6th and tomrrow 110 days from March 9th
the 19th is 28 tr days from July7th low & 81 tr days from April 20 low
& next week an astro grouping that has very negative notations

As indicated by the BAR cycle, the day TODAY starts off DOWN till 10am
sorry Coy, that one was upside down

Whats Next
A low close on the 12th
A strong OPEN on the 13th and HOD at about 2pm
Friday = a lower open ,but higher close

there are very few times that it will be beneficial to be short
NEXT week is one of those times
WE may NOW be getting into the ILLUSIVE "B" wave
Readings for next week
17th= Confusion & impaired judgment
18th = Tension - recklessness- explosive actions- caution in travel
19th = restrictions- caution with $-
20th = cloudy vision - upsets - sever surprises

The WAVE now unfolding should look like
Low on 12th
high on 14th
low on 19th-20th
high on24th
low on 26th

more later

Sunday, August 09, 2009


thanks for posting some REALLY good info
Ravi, PK, And some new names- Don Harold, & Don D
UK trader - good Astro updates

Ravi - we should conference - send me an email

Spx hit 1018 which is exactly a 1/2 murry math cycle from 1002 to 1032

My volume and A/D internal technical numbers have been dropping all last week,
and should show up in lower price levels next week

I will not allow you to set me up for a reprimand
because you told us the mkt would be at $ on a date, and it didnt happen that way
I get enuf of that at home[gg]

As previously posted --Aug 10th shows best chance for SELL OFF to start
Power index & Propens index BOTH AGREE on a decline
And it looks like a LOW Friday Am & this should lead to a higher close on the 14th,
but it should be a lot lower than Aug7th.

UK is right about the 14th Sun 180 Jupiter and it has a POSITIVE effect

Heres my outlook this week
Mon & tues lower
Wed = flat & expect a snails pace day
Ths = higher till about 2pm, then lower at close
Fri = lower open, then higher at close